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Costs involved to turbo charge a starlet


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#1 InterCooL

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 12:05 PM

So you want to turbo your starlet? smile.gif
Good on you

This thread is a general guide to what needs to be done, what you can cut corners, and how much you can expect to pay.
It's very easy to see the "$1300" price tag for the basic turbo kit and assume that's all you are going to have to spend. Unfortunately this is not the case.

You have 2 options.
1: 4efte transplant from ep82 GT or glanza V (technically should only be from glanzaV)
2: 4efet (turbo your 4efe stocko engine)

Option 1 should give you 100kW at the fly
Option 2 should give you appx 135kW at the fly

First of all, differences / similarities between the turbo import engine and the stocko Aus engine:
Block is the same
Crank is the same
Cams are very similar, 1mm difference
EP91 fuel pump is stock supra fuel pump, -can support a large demand
No extra oil squirters

Compression ratio from 9.6 - 8.2 (Pistons slightly larger to make this)
4efte gearbox stronger
4efte connecting rods thicker
4efte clutch slightly stronger
4efte oil sump has oil return from turbo
4efte oil pump different
4efte crankpulley (harmonic stabiliser) substantially heavier
4efte drive shafts thicker
4efte supsension slightly different
4efte injectors larger to support boost

That being said, there are 4efe's that have been turbo charged and been running powerfully happy at 15psi for many km's


OPTION 1

Positives with transplant:
Bolt in fit
Fairly cheap
Should get some funky white Glanza V dials
Should be able to sell some parts for money if not needed
Should only be one - two days labour to drop everything
Goes fast

Negatives with transplant:
The engine could be in bad condition, it has happened in the past
Water pump / timing belt / fuel / oil filters / oil should be replaced
Transport of the half cut
Needs EPA tests and engineering to register

Expected Costs:
Half cuts range from $1500-$3500
$500 exhaust (cat, catback, muffler, fitting)
$40 Oil
$16 Spark plugs
$30 Fuel Filter
$7 Oil Filter
$65 Timing belt
$150 Water pump
$1000 labour (maybe cheaper if import is GlanzaV)
Free: EPA test
$120-$500 Engineers Certificate

Overall budget of transplant:
DIY: $3000-$4500
Pro: $4000-$5500


OPTION 2

Positives:
Will go crazy fast, much more power than stock CT9 4efte engine
Engine no. remains the same (no engineers cert / EPA test required)
Some items upgraded would have to be upgraded in transplant engine if more power was desired anyhow (such as intercooler, clutch etc)
Kit available with much success
Running higher compression will give better off boost performance

Negatives:
Cost
Gearbox has to be treated with more respect
Brakes aren't as great as import half cut
Many things are required to happen to do this upgrade

Expected Costs:
$300 2nd hand turbo
$3160 Comprehensive turbo kit (including ecu, manifold, lines, air filter, fuel regulator)
$1100 Turbo back exhaust (including dump, flex, cat, muffler, fitting)
$1275 Water / air intercooler (including piping, hoses, clamps etc)
$430 New clutch to hold the power
$300 Tune
$40 Turbo happy oil
$150 Injectors (such as 4agze)


Pro Installation:
$650 remove / install old / new turbo setup
$150 install water / air cooler
$250 clutch

Overall budget of 4efet
DIY: $6750
Pro: $7750

What corners you can cut:
Load preset on ECU by Dale, -$300 tune
Cheap 2nd hand intercooler + mild steel piping, -$600
Use stock clutch (will slip after 6psi), -$430
Cheapest budget cutting corners DIY: $5450

The difference in price is quite substantial, but so is the power output



After the conversion / turbo:

Further upgrades you can look at:
SUSPENSION! sway bars, camber kits, shocks, springs etc, very fun!
Even larger injectors
Fuel pump
Boost controllers
Limited slip differential
Engine internals
MORE boost wink.gif
More engineers cert's
...
does it end? wink.gif

choose wisely and enjoy smile.gif
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#2 ep91gt

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 03:26 PM

man thats a great list, i wish this was there 12months ago.
ive spent over 10grand now but thats motor, suspension, brakes aswell and ive cut labour down heaps.

but as you said it never stops! :wink:

#3 FastStar

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 03:52 PM

I'm sure there needs to be some sort of engineer certificate for turboing a EP91. Like wouldn't it need to be looked at that all the connection and manfiold design are structially sound etc... So it's legal. Haven't did my research but logically its a major modification and would need a cert. Dale could probably clear things up about this.

#4 InterCooL

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 05:46 PM

...any non standard part needs a cert. to be legal

but you cant register a car with a new engine block without having EPA tests + engineers certs

yes you SHOULD get turbo'd 4efe ep91's engineered
but its not 'essential' unless you get pulled over by a cop who wants to probe around..
i'd deffinately do it...
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#5 FastStar

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Posted 04 June 2005 - 08:59 PM

so just to make it on the legal side on things another $120-500 for engineers cert should be added to option 2.

#6 trekster

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 08:03 AM

I think the compression ration on the 4efe's is 9.6:1

?????


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#7 InterCooL

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 01:03 PM

i wasn't sure on that, i'll change it

i thought i remember a post on twincam when ppl had a go about dales turbo kit, and someone ran through different compression ratio of different turbo cars, starting off with startlet at 8.2 and running to some skyline at 9.1, so it made a 9.2 4efe look fine.
but i'm sure i could be wrong, after all eric, you have alot more experience with 4efe's than me! tongue.gif
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#8 ep91gt

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 03:31 PM

engineers cert cost me $660 incl gst, and you should get one done anyway!

#9 Lone

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 06:22 PM

Good work on that smile.gif
stop it please

#10 FastStar

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 06:28 PM

Personally i'll go with OPTION 1 as firstly you get upgraded brakes, gearbox, etc... and anything else you'll need, then sell the rest of the fornt cut and your old engine etc to get some money back, so again it'll end up being cheaper and put money to mods. Well thats how i think of it.

#11 Will

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Posted 18 June 2005 - 12:01 PM

some words of advice...
expect the worst!

Expect that there is going to be ALOT of hidden costs involved in any upgrade and budget for them.. that way if you arent out of pocket it is a bonus.

Also expect not to have your car for a few weeks.. things dont just happen quickly.

Things can be fine when your car goes in then because of the extra power, age of the swap you are required to buy heaps of other stuff and other parts sh*t themselves.

#12 joko

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 08:05 AM

I'd like to dissagree on the cost of option 1.

If you find a good low cost frint cut, there is no reason why you have to get all those bits and pieces.

My front cut cost me $1600 + exhasut cost me $450 ($275 of which was the cannon mufler only.) + Gear box & motor oil.

I did it by stripping my ep91 and using all off a ep82 - wires, A/C, power steer, engine & all.

It cost me ~ $2000 and 2 days to do my self.

Engineer mod plate are $100 here but i still recon we dont need one. They are real easy to get as the engine mounts are identical.

#13 C.O.L.O.S.O

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 11:16 AM

Hi InterCool,that´s a great guide to follow man,but there´s a thing that does not match to me,there you said that both fuel pumps (the 4efe and the 4efte) were identical,is this correct?both fuel pump flows the same? Regards.
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#14 Tarkers

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 12:52 PM

Ive probably just missed it, but shouldnt there be wiring for the first option, its average price is around $500.

Yeh dont expect everything to go smoothly, for my replacement 4efte in my ep71 i was quoted about $600 and 2-3 days, ended up costing $1150($900 labour + parts) and took a week and a half.

Lol and its still gotta go back due to a misfiring problem i cant seem to shake. Engine was fine in halfcut but misfiring when put in the car.
Allways expect it to cost more tongue.gif
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#15 InterCooL

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 01:20 PM

joko, as i stated, it's just a rough guide. everyone will be slightly different
but its a good idea to change your timing belt and water pump while the engine is out, and new spark plugs, fuel / oil filters are always advised when putting in an engine that you have no idea how it was treated. if you wish to leave them as is, then it's your decision, but it's not too hard to add up an estimated cost (from what you choose...).

C.O.L.O.S.O, i spoke to dale about fuel pumps i believe (it was a while ago). he is able to push up to 17psi with the ep91 stock one with td04l. i may be wrong.. it was a while ago when i gathered the info for this

Tarkers, i put labour as $1000, broken up as $500 engine drop and $500 wiring. but as you said, things can go wrong and end up costing you more. out of curosity, did your transplant cost $1150 including wiring?
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#16 C.O.L.O.S.O

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 01:31 PM

Ok InterCool,I know Toyota´s fuel pump´s were "generous" I´m boosting 10 psi on my stock 5efe fuel pump and it gave me all the fuel I need,hehehe.I´m pretty sure the 4efe and 5efe had the same fuel pump.Thanks Toyota biggrin.gif
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#17 10sec_rx7

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 01:48 PM

the stock ep91 pump in my car is perfect up to 18psi, after that is starts to srtuggle but not to the point where it will cost a motor

i am going to change is soon just to be safe

dale

#18 Tarkers

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE(InterCooL @ Aug 31 2005, 01:20 PM)
Tarkers, i put labour as $1000, broken up as $500 engine drop and $500 wiring. but as you said, things can go wrong and end up costing you more. out of curosity, did your transplant cost $1150 including wiring?
View Post


Yeah that was the total cost of swapping the new engine over, 2 engines out, 1 engine in + wiring(ep82 cvs and auto box were used in the swap too)
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#19 4RCFED

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 08:44 PM

how much is this "dales" turbo kit and what sort of power can you expect from it? where would i get some more info on it?

#20 Guest_Starlet TTR_*

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:30 PM

QUOTE(4RCFED @ 7 Aug 2006, 08:14 PM) View Post
how much is this "dales" turbo kit and what sort of power can you expect from it? where would i get some more info on it?


You can find more info here.... http://www.austarlet...p?showtopic=551
and if you go down to the "Traders section" down the bottom, the click "braidedlines", there are contact details in there..... wink.gif




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